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	<title>Comments for Metaphor Hacker - Hacking Metaphors, Frames and Other Ideas</title>
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		<title>Comment on Why Chomsky doesn&#8217;t count as a gifted linguist by G Bell</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2010/08/why-chomsky-doesnt-count-as-a-gifted-linguist/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>G Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=105#comment-399</guid>
		<description>Generative grammar, unlike many common and useful ways of codifying grammar rules, is so precise that for any set of generative rules, there is an a computer program (algorithm) to list all the legal sentences. Its very precision might be held against it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generative grammar, unlike many common and useful ways of codifying grammar rules, is so precise that for any set of generative rules, there is an a computer program (algorithm) to list all the legal sentences. Its very precision might be held against it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Chomsky doesn&#8217;t count as a gifted linguist by LBHR</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2010/08/why-chomsky-doesnt-count-as-a-gifted-linguist/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>LBHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 00:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=105#comment-338</guid>
		<description>The Generative notion of ungrammaticality is certainly an artifact of the Generative/Generativoid model, but only insofar as forces are an artifact of Newton&#039;s model.  I admit this kind of objection has made me worry about science, but it&#039;s not unique to generative grammar.

Would you find ambiguities in meaning to be a less controversial example of a linguistic phenomenon?  For instance &quot;I saw the man with the binoculars&quot; (who has the binoculars) or &quot;Every boy loves a girl&quot; (the same girl?).  

As for the pyramids… in science, there&#039;s always the risk that your results are going to be coincidental, and with a baby science like linguistics the risk is especially high. That doesn&#039;t mean we should give up-- on the contrary, it&#039;s all the more reason to keep hitting our frameworks with more and more data, control for various variables, and see which fmwks are fruitful and which are not.



[POSTSCRIPT: No generative grammarian would say that you have to specially learn what not to say.  In calling a sentence ungrammatical, we&#039;re simply saying that it&#039;s not one of the things you do learn to say.  I&#039;m also puzzled by your mention of formal algorithms. Generative grammar has nothing to do with those.  An algorithm is a list of instructions to accomplish some task– generative grammarians ask what the task is that&#039;s responsible for linguistic phenomena.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Generative notion of ungrammaticality is certainly an artifact of the Generative/Generativoid model, but only insofar as forces are an artifact of Newton&#8217;s model.  I admit this kind of objection has made me worry about science, but it&#8217;s not unique to generative grammar.</p>
<p>Would you find ambiguities in meaning to be a less controversial example of a linguistic phenomenon?  For instance &#8220;I saw the man with the binoculars&#8221; (who has the binoculars) or &#8220;Every boy loves a girl&#8221; (the same girl?).  </p>
<p>As for the pyramids… in science, there&#8217;s always the risk that your results are going to be coincidental, and with a baby science like linguistics the risk is especially high. That doesn&#8217;t mean we should give up&#8211; on the contrary, it&#8217;s all the more reason to keep hitting our frameworks with more and more data, control for various variables, and see which fmwks are fruitful and which are not.</p>
<p>[POSTSCRIPT: No generative grammarian would say that you have to specially learn what not to say.  In calling a sentence ungrammatical, we're simply saying that it's not one of the things you do learn to say.  I'm also puzzled by your mention of formal algorithms. Generative grammar has nothing to do with those.  An algorithm is a list of instructions to accomplish some task– generative grammarians ask what the task is that's responsible for linguistic phenomena.]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Chomsky doesn&#8217;t count as a gifted linguist by admin</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2010/08/why-chomsky-doesnt-count-as-a-gifted-linguist/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 07:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=105#comment-337</guid>
		<description>Well, actually my objection is that even the difference between &quot;I did not eat&quot; and &quot;I not ate&quot; is not a real linguistic phenomenon. It&#039;s an artifact of the model adopted by Chomsky. Only if we think that sentences are generated by a formal algorithm do we have to be concerned not to generate ones that are not acceptable. But as Chomsky himself claims elsewhere, we mostly learn what to say and not what to say. But because there&#039;s no evidence that we learn it in a generative manner (and lots of evidence we don&#039;t), it&#039;s unlikely that some internal constraints prevent us from saying &quot;I not ate&quot;. We say &quot;I did not eat&quot; because that&#039;s the pattern we learned to say. 

Chomsky happened on some significant patterns of regularity in his description of language. But let&#039;s remember that Erich Von Däniken also came upon some strange regularities in the relationship between the dimensions of the pyramids and the distance to the Moon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, actually my objection is that even the difference between &#8220;I did not eat&#8221; and &#8220;I not ate&#8221; is not a real linguistic phenomenon. It&#8217;s an artifact of the model adopted by Chomsky. Only if we think that sentences are generated by a formal algorithm do we have to be concerned not to generate ones that are not acceptable. But as Chomsky himself claims elsewhere, we mostly learn what to say and not what to say. But because there&#8217;s no evidence that we learn it in a generative manner (and lots of evidence we don&#8217;t), it&#8217;s unlikely that some internal constraints prevent us from saying &#8220;I not ate&#8221;. We say &#8220;I did not eat&#8221; because that&#8217;s the pattern we learned to say. </p>
<p>Chomsky happened on some significant patterns of regularity in his description of language. But let&#8217;s remember that Erich Von Däniken also came upon some strange regularities in the relationship between the dimensions of the pyramids and the distance to the Moon.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Chomsky doesn&#8217;t count as a gifted linguist by LBHR</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2010/08/why-chomsky-doesnt-count-as-a-gifted-linguist/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>LBHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 06:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=105#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Can you clarify what your criteria would be for &quot;elucidat[ing] an actual linguistic phenomenon&quot;?  

Presumably the difference in acceptability between the English sentences &quot;I did not eat&quot; and &quot;I not ate.&quot; is a real linguistic phenomenon, right?   

Is your objection to Generative Grammar that it is too narrow (i.e. ignores some interesting questions)?  That there&#039;s something really deeply broken with it (i.e. it&#039;s a pseudoscience or something)?  Something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you clarify what your criteria would be for &#8220;elucidat[ing] an actual linguistic phenomenon&#8221;?  </p>
<p>Presumably the difference in acceptability between the English sentences &#8220;I did not eat&#8221; and &#8220;I not ate.&#8221; is a real linguistic phenomenon, right?   </p>
<p>Is your objection to Generative Grammar that it is too narrow (i.e. ignores some interesting questions)?  That there&#8217;s something really deeply broken with it (i.e. it&#8217;s a pseudoscience or something)?  Something else?</p>
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		<title>Comment on When is subtle manipulation of data a flat out lie? Truth about Chinese prisons by Vladimir Menkov</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/05/when-is-subtle-manipulation-of-data-a-flat-out-lie-truth-about-chinese-prisons/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Vladimir Menkov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 04:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=585#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Well, if you put together the country with the world&#039;s largest population, the one with the world&#039;s largest land area, and the one with the world&#039;s highest GDP, then it is not entirely surprising that probably &quot;over half of the world&#039;s &lt;em&gt;(almost) anything&lt;/em&gt;&quot; is in these three countries put together. Whether you count prisoners, astronauts, sturgeon fish, electric bicycles, miles of railways, or tea consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if you put together the country with the world&#8217;s largest population, the one with the world&#8217;s largest land area, and the one with the world&#8217;s highest GDP, then it is not entirely surprising that probably &#8220;over half of the world&#8217;s <em>(almost) anything</em>&#8221; is in these three countries put together. Whether you count prisoners, astronauts, sturgeon fish, electric bicycles, miles of railways, or tea consumption.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The brain is a bad metaphor for language by Quora</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/03/the-brain-is-a-bad-metaphor-for-language/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>Quora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2011 08:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=401#comment-317</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;What is the connection between neurons and metaphors?...&lt;/strong&gt;

There are people who claim that there are many features of the brain that are directly responsible for metaphor (mirror neurons, neuron excitations, etc.) George Lakoff and Jerome Feldman are big proponents of NTL (Neural Theory of Language) - see Feld...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>What is the connection between neurons and metaphors?&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>There are people who claim that there are many features of the brain that are directly responsible for metaphor (mirror neurons, neuron excitations, etc.) George Lakoff and Jerome Feldman are big proponents of NTL (Neural Theory of Language) &#8211; see Feld&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The most ridiculous metaphor of education courtesy of an economics professor by Dominik Lukeš</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/02/the-most-ridiculous-metaphor-of-education/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominik Lukeš</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=369#comment-314</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks for taking the time. Just a few points:

1. &quot;cargo cult&quot; - see my somewhat stagnant project on Education as Voodoo (http://eduvoodoo.net).

2. I am most emphatically NOT saying that choice is a problem (although, it is not an unadulterated good or a moral sine qua non). But I am saying that frequently, choice is an illusion.  Charter schools are pretend choice.

3. I don&#039;t think primary/secondary schools have to be monopolistic intrinsically (also in any one areas they tend to be duopolies) but at current economies of scale, it is pretty much the only choice (thus the analogy to US cable providers in the 80s and cell companies at the moment). So while there may be some boutique alt edu providers in many areas they do not put any competitive pressure on the monopolistic &#039;catchment&#039; schools. Many suggest that going back to the system of small schools would be a good idea - but I suspect it would also be a really expensive thing to do. And the problem with the market approaches to education is that they are also obsessed with saving money. 

Nothing is intrinsically monopolistic - not even the police, armies or tax collection (see Ancient Rome) - but there are areas where it is beneficial for the state to have at least a monopoly of regulation (electricity provision, spectrum interference, POTS, etc.)  even if the provision of a service allows for competition on certain surface aspects of the service.

4. You make valid points about the weakness of parts of my argument about lack of choice in some areas. I&#039;ll have to think on this some more .

5. I&#039;ll leave the description of growing up in a &quot;communist&quot; country for another blog post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks for taking the time. Just a few points:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;cargo cult&#8221; &#8211; see my somewhat stagnant project on Education as Voodoo (<a href="http://eduvoodoo.net" rel="nofollow">http://eduvoodoo.net</a>).</p>
<p>2. I am most emphatically NOT saying that choice is a problem (although, it is not an unadulterated good or a moral sine qua non). But I am saying that frequently, choice is an illusion.  Charter schools are pretend choice.</p>
<p>3. I don&#8217;t think primary/secondary schools have to be monopolistic intrinsically (also in any one areas they tend to be duopolies) but at current economies of scale, it is pretty much the only choice (thus the analogy to US cable providers in the 80s and cell companies at the moment). So while there may be some boutique alt edu providers in many areas they do not put any competitive pressure on the monopolistic &#8216;catchment&#8217; schools. Many suggest that going back to the system of small schools would be a good idea &#8211; but I suspect it would also be a really expensive thing to do. And the problem with the market approaches to education is that they are also obsessed with saving money. </p>
<p>Nothing is intrinsically monopolistic &#8211; not even the police, armies or tax collection (see Ancient Rome) &#8211; but there are areas where it is beneficial for the state to have at least a monopoly of regulation (electricity provision, spectrum interference, POTS, etc.)  even if the provision of a service allows for competition on certain surface aspects of the service.</p>
<p>4. You make valid points about the weakness of parts of my argument about lack of choice in some areas. I&#8217;ll have to think on this some more .</p>
<p>5. I&#8217;ll leave the description of growing up in a &#8220;communist&#8221; country for another blog post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do science fiction writers dream of fascist dictatorships? by Dominik Lukeš</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/03/do-science-fiction-writers-dream-of-fascist-dictatorships/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominik Lukeš</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=438#comment-313</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the links. Fascinating. But I&#039;d say there&#039;s a distinction between focusing on the individual as part of the narrative - that&#039;s a fairly universal and perhaps unavoidable feature of story telling (although different eras use different codes for describing the individual&#039;s inner states and immediate social interactions - cf. Tolkien and Edda) - and an individual as the focus of a political movement.http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?p=438&amp;approved=1#comments-form

Also, I&#039;d distinguish reason from rationalism - reducing everything to reason. I fear rationalism, but reason is a fun thing to play with. The fascist rejection of rationalism was itself a product of rationalism - and I see hints of that in some SciFi. Two reasonable/ing people can disagree amiably, two rationalists would tend to try to annihilate one another (because, if reason is infallible, only one can be right and remain who they are). Also rationalists hold in them the seed of the suppression of any more rationalism once the pinnacle of their &#039;reason&#039; was reached.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links. Fascinating. But I&#8217;d say there&#8217;s a distinction between focusing on the individual as part of the narrative &#8211; that&#8217;s a fairly universal and perhaps unavoidable feature of story telling (although different eras use different codes for describing the individual&#8217;s inner states and immediate social interactions &#8211; cf. Tolkien and Edda) &#8211; and an individual as the focus of a political movement.<a href="http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?p=438&#038;approved=1#comments-form" rel="nofollow">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?p=438&#038;approved=1#comments-form</a></p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d distinguish reason from rationalism &#8211; reducing everything to reason. I fear rationalism, but reason is a fun thing to play with. The fascist rejection of rationalism was itself a product of rationalism &#8211; and I see hints of that in some SciFi. Two reasonable/ing people can disagree amiably, two rationalists would tend to try to annihilate one another (because, if reason is infallible, only one can be right and remain who they are). Also rationalists hold in them the seed of the suppression of any more rationalism once the pinnacle of their &#8216;reason&#8217; was reached.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do science fiction writers dream of fascist dictatorships? by TGGP</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/03/do-science-fiction-writers-dream-of-fascist-dictatorships/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 02:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=438#comment-312</guid>
		<description>Mark Kleiman is one of my favorite intellectuals I disagree with. &quot;When Brute Force Fails&quot; is an essential book for our time.

Funny that Tyler Cowen linked to &lt;a href=&quot;http://mises.org/daily/5018/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; on sci-fi and libertarianism some days ago. I think sci-fi tends toward rationalism, which fascism tends to deride. I distrust &lt;a href=&quot;http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/jacob-levys-liberalisms-divide/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rationalism&lt;/a&gt; as well, but don&#039;t go in for irrationalism (instead I think pluralism/empiricism helps us better attain accuracy).

&quot;strong, charismatic leadership with a sense of duty and most of all a belief in the necessity of change led by common sense. The needs of the collective justified the suppression of the individual in almost any way.&quot;
Except for that second sentence, it sounds pretty normal. And if it was spun in a more mild version than &quot;almost any way&quot;, that would also sound normal. I don&#039;t read much sci-fi, but I think (as with most fiction) the individual tends to be held above the collective. Sympathetic individual protagonists make for better stories.

For fear of tripping spam filters I&#039;ll refrain from linking to Scott Sumner&#039;s post at TheMoneyIllusion arguing that the narrative form is inherently liberal. You can google the title &quot;Is the term ‘political art’ an oxymoron? (Part 2)&quot;. &quot;Part 1&quot; has a completely different title, so don&#039;t try searching for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Kleiman is one of my favorite intellectuals I disagree with. &#8220;When Brute Force Fails&#8221; is an essential book for our time.</p>
<p>Funny that Tyler Cowen linked to <a href="http://mises.org/daily/5018/" rel="nofollow">this</a> on sci-fi and libertarianism some days ago. I think sci-fi tends toward rationalism, which fascism tends to deride. I distrust <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/jacob-levys-liberalisms-divide/" rel="nofollow">rationalism</a> as well, but don&#8217;t go in for irrationalism (instead I think pluralism/empiricism helps us better attain accuracy).</p>
<p>&#8220;strong, charismatic leadership with a sense of duty and most of all a belief in the necessity of change led by common sense. The needs of the collective justified the suppression of the individual in almost any way.&#8221;<br />
Except for that second sentence, it sounds pretty normal. And if it was spun in a more mild version than &#8220;almost any way&#8221;, that would also sound normal. I don&#8217;t read much sci-fi, but I think (as with most fiction) the individual tends to be held above the collective. Sympathetic individual protagonists make for better stories.</p>
<p>For fear of tripping spam filters I&#8217;ll refrain from linking to Scott Sumner&#8217;s post at TheMoneyIllusion arguing that the narrative form is inherently liberal. You can google the title &#8220;Is the term ‘political art’ an oxymoron? (Part 2)&#8221;. &#8220;Part 1&#8243; has a completely different title, so don&#8217;t try searching for that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The most ridiculous metaphor of education courtesy of an economics professor by TGGP</title>
		<link>http://metaphorhacker.net/2011/02/the-most-ridiculous-metaphor-of-education/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2011 03:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaphorhacker.techczech.net/?p=369#comment-308</guid>
		<description>I wrote a comment (currently in moderation) that grew rapidly. But I still forgot to include one bit: a reference to Albert O. Hirschmann&#039;s &quot;Exit, Voice and Loyalty&quot;. I left the book as I came to it, an Exit chauvinist dismissive of Voice and Loyalty. I won&#039;t link to my discussion of it at my blog, for fear of tripping the spam filter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a comment (currently in moderation) that grew rapidly. But I still forgot to include one bit: a reference to Albert O. Hirschmann&#8217;s &#8220;Exit, Voice and Loyalty&#8221;. I left the book as I came to it, an Exit chauvinist dismissive of Voice and Loyalty. I won&#8217;t link to my discussion of it at my blog, for fear of tripping the spam filter.</p>
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